In a comment to my recent post about the ineffectiveness of bear bags and recommended alternatives, reader Jim N. asked,
Where is the recommended place to store a BV450 bear canister overnight in black bear country?
I received a similar question via email from David N., so a standalone post on the issue seems warranted. But to give a more comprehensive answer, I’ll broaden the question to:
Where and how should bear canisters and Ursacks be stored overnight?
Let’s first look at what the land agencies and manufacturers suggest:
1. Put them a “safe” distance away from camp. Yosemite National Park recommends a distance or 25 to 50 yards. I have not found a specific recommended distance for grizzly habitat.
2. Avoid any location where they can be rolled away.
3. Do not attach anything to the canister (e.g. a rope or handle) that would make it easier to carry away.
For a few other tips, go here and here.
1. Seal the Ursack with a double overhand knot.
2. Anchor it to an unbreakable tree or branch, as high as you can reach, using a figure-8 knot, which is easy to tie and which resists cinching. Do not anchor it low to the ground, which will make it easier for a bear to smash and get leverage.
3. If you have more than one Ursack, spread them apart by about 25 yards.
For additional recommendations, go here.
The official recommendations mostly sound reasonable. I would add only a few things:
1. Distance from camp
In black bear habitat, usually I keep my canister or Ursack closer to my camp, probably more like 10 to 20 yards. It’s far enough away that a bear shouldn’t step on me or confuse me with my food, but it’s close enough that I can hear a bear messing with it. It’s also close enough to deter most bears, which generally are uncomfortable entering an occupied camp.
In grizzly habitat, I’m less bold. A 25-yard minimum sounds about right.
When using a canister, I try to find a spot where it will be difficult to roll far or to roll out of view. Look for a talus field or rock garden, a shallow but steep-sided depression, thick brush, or a flat open meadow.
Be particularly careful of nearby creeks and cliffs. Famously, a bear in Yosemite learned that canisters would explode if she rolled them off a cliff near Snow Creek.
3. Alarm bells
Often I will put my clean cook pot on top of my canister or Ursack, so that it makes noise if a bear (or maybe a large rodent) begins to investigate my food. If I’m sleeping soundly and wrapped in a noise-muffling mummy bag, hopefully I’ll wake up.
4. Ursacks above treeline
It’s best to secure an Ursack to an unbreakable tree or limb. If you’re above treeline or in the Arctic, use the next best thing available. For example, tie it around the base of a boulder, or around a boulder that’s wedged in a talus field. Make it difficult for a bear to carry it away.
Speaking of “alarm bells,” do you think there is any merit to putting a bear bell inside a bear canister as an alarm / deterrent?
If you rigged up an air horn or electrified it, that might cause the bear to temporarily back away. I don’t think a bell would do squat.
No, not to scare the bear, but to wake you up. I have been pondering how to make a alarm system as well. Your pot idea is pretty good. But on the other hand, maybe a serious noise maker might actually scare a bear as well. Like a motion activated electronic alarm. I suppose it would need a timer shutoff feature too, so you don’t habe to get out and stop it lol.
I am thinking that if you can stop the intruder early on, it might lower the chances that they will get excited about the food they just found and they will be easier to scare away. It also lowers the chances that they will do any damage.
I’m curious what you guys think of the general idea of using an alarm system to enhance your food storage method. Now seems like the perfect time to ask.
To put my response in context, you have to consider that I’ve NEVER had a bear walk into my camp and mess with my food. At some point, you stop worrying about such things. I’m sure my experience would be different if I camped in Little Yosemite Valley or at Glen Aulin with hordes of other people, but I don’t, and I think that’s a big reason why I don’t have the food/bear issues that are common elsewhere.
Never? Me either but just to be sure… Never?
Other than not typically or ever camping in relatively crowded locations which are therefore more likely to be frequented by relatively novice, less careful backpackers and therefore possibly draw bears; what else do you routinely do to avoid the notice of bears? Like cooking before making camp and/or in a location at some remove from camp, practicing excellent hygiene relatively to odors. Paying attention to the wind and trying to camp upwind of something like a lake or a drop-off so any odors have a long way to travel before reaching an ursine nose. Odor-proof bags like nylofume bags for smellables? etc.?
I’ve never had a bear walk into MY camp.
I can recall one bear walking into the camp of a guided group, a few miles from Alta and Crescent Meadow trailheads in SEKI. Twelve servings of beans & rice with fritos and cheese probably smells promising. That we’ve only had one bear come into camp on about 100 nights of trips in SEKI should inspire confidence.
To avoid bears, I think the best thing to do is get far away from areas where bears have been “trained” to look for food and perhaps even to act aggressively. The other methods you mention probably help, too, but they won’t offset your negligence if you camp where a gazillion other people do.
Randy, ever been car camping and heard someone’s car alarm go off in the middle of the night? If you can rig up an alarm so that a small animal or a breeze doesn’t set it off, go for it. Otherwise that sounds like a bad idea.
For clarification, are you saying that ideally, Ursaks should be hanged in a way commonly thought to hang a bear bag? So, bear bags are all but pointless, but in bear country a canister or Ursak is a good bet, the later of which should ideally be hung like a bear bag? I realize this comes off a little snarky, but it wouldn’t if I were speaking the question. Looking to gain insight from your experience.
This series of blog posts on the subject is creating tangents that are hard to follow. Might suggest drawing up some kind visual aid like a decision flow chart. IE: “Is the area known for bears”––>IF NO, keep food in a clean Loksak and sleep with it inside shelter. IF YES….––>”Is the area known for grizzly bears or just black bears?” Here’s one for figuring out whats wrong with a broken lamp: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LampFlowchart.svg
Ursacks can be hung as a normal bear bag, but the beauty of the Ursack is that it doesn’t need to be, and in fact that’s discouraged.
An Ursack should be tied at shoulder-height to an unbreakable limb or tree, or some other bomber anchor. That’s it. You don’t need to hang it to defend it, because its construction is its defense.
If you were to hang it, you run the risk of a bear running off with your entire Ursack if they manage to get it down.
Agree with the decision-making tree. There’s a lot of nuance to this topic.
Got it. There’s a difference between “secure/anchor” and “hang.”
Thanks Skurk-Dawg, Bruh!
Do you prefer/recommend the ursack allmitey or major when in bear country? Does the Major adequately resist mini bears too? I ask because if you’re in bear country, you’ll of course still encounter mini bears too (most likely).
The Major does not adequately resist mini bears. Rodents have sharper teeth and they can chew through the fabric.
I still go with the Major, though, because where I camp I don’t tend to have rodent issues. If there are rodents around, they’re not trained enough to climb 6 feet up a tree to get my food.
Thanks Andrew. At this point, I’m mainly hiking in the Sierra and San Gabriels. It doesn’t seem that I’ve run across major rodent issues aside from an overly bold chipmunk or two (occasionally). I may just lean towards the Major and anchor to trees about 6 ft up. Thanks for your feedback and information you have made available. It’s been invaluable to my efforts to get back out in the wilds.
More good advice Andrew. I usually put my canister or Ursack downwind of my tent. There’s some chance an un-habituated bear will spook if they smell me, and less chance of a bold bear tripping on my shelter guy-lines if it’s following a scent line to check out my cache.
I also like to put my cache out of sight.
Thanks for advices! I was looking for something like this for my next track.
At the risk of seeming indelicate, I like to “mark my territory” (pee a little on rocks and trees) around the camp, the bear can, and especially on where I spit out my toothpaste.
Does the all mighty protect against bears and “mini bears”/rodents? or do you need one bag for bears and one for rodents?
The AllMitey is essentially two bags in one. They laminated or sewed their Minor fabric to their Major fabric, to make it resistant to bears with strong jaws and big teeth and to rodents with small but sharp teeth.
Mythbusting is like breaking trail in deep snow. Kudos for writing this very informative article.
Being that the warranty of Ursack allows replacement for tears greater than 1/4 inch, that would probably mean there will be holes that may allow saliva into the bag and hence onto food. If food bags were to be punctured and there was saliva and blood on the food, and if the bear had rabbies, would this be a danger or am I detached from reality?
If a bear has a go at your Ursack, I wouldn’t expect the food to be salvageable. It’ll protect the bear from your food, but not your food from the bear. Additionally, bears (along with most top tier predators) are pretty nasty––parasites, worms, disease, etc. No thanks. That aluminum sheet thing they sell might do something if you have it, but I do not. General mitigation practices (odor barriers, camp location, where you cook and stash your food, etc) are the best way to keep your food safe. Best way to keep you and the bears safe, too. Andrew and others have a lot of tips on that subject.